Forum Discussion
5G home internet keeps dropping
I'm having a problem with T-Mobile 5g home internet that has not been resolved despite many calls in to the help line. I've had T-Mobile 5g home internet for almost a month now, and the short version is that every so often the gateway drops the network. When I say "drop the network," I mean to say it throws everything off of the Wifi that it's broadcasting, and anything plugged in via ethernet says "no network found. (To elaborate this point, cell phones switch to cellular data because wifi is gone for them, and computers hardwired into the gateway think that they are no longer plugged into anything.) Turning off the gateway and turning it back on resolves the issue, but doesn't prevent it from happening again. Whatever is happening doesn't seem to affect our connection speed/strength when the gateway IS providing signal to devices in the home, but due to the nature of our work, we need a connection that won't just disconnect randomly.
To address this, T-mobile has so far run a bunch of tests on their end, and seem to have ruled out a tower issue (which makes sense, as the tower shouldn't have anything to do with whether or not the devices on the gateway's wifi or ethernet connection get thrown off of the network.) They've sent me a replacement gateway, which is experiencing the exact same problem (3 times in the last 36 hours, in fact). I've noticed that the device gets pretty warm, so I set up a computer case fan as a cooler to force air through the device, thinking that perhaps it's an issue with the device overheating. However, while the gateway is notably cooler than it was without the fan, it has not prevented the issue from persisting. The last thing that I can think to do (and my most recent attempt at resolving this issue) is to plug a router into the gateway via ethernet, and allow the router to handle the wifi/connections w/ devices in the house, and to disable wifi from the gateway all together. Maybe the gateway is simply too overburdened with connections and gets somehow overwhelmed and shuts down, and having the router handle the "heavy lifting" of taking care of all of the individual device connections will resolve it? I don't have a great deal of faith that this will fix the issue (as the gateway also kicks ethernet things off of the network when it experiences this problem), but I'm running out of options/ideas of what to do in order to just get a stable, constant internet service.
Is anybody else having this issue, has anybody resolved this issue, or does anybody have any advice or feedback regarding how I might get this resolved so that I can get back to having stable internet?
I had another thought or two about troubleshooting this. You have clients upon the ASUS and still have LAN 2 for leverage. The Roku test was informative but what about connecting a small gigabit switch to LAN 2 and using a client or two multi-homed in effect. You could use the investigation client(s) with wireless to the ASUS and have an Ethernet connection to a switch on LAN 2. If the client has issues hitting the internet through the ASUS then disable the wireless and enable the Ethernet port and check results. Maybe take a client and the Nokia router with the 2.5 Ghz wireless on a different SSID and look at results from that angle as well. El Asus ac68u has four Ethernet ports as well as the 802.11ac so take advantage of the physical ports on the ASUS as well. Test and verify. If you have a client with multiple Ethernet interfaces and plenty of resources stand up some virtual machines as well. Linux would provide yet another data point and physical Ethernet LAN ports tend to just work with Linux. Lots of tools in the Linux environment to play with. Use different clients, Apple, Windows, Linux, Android, Raspberry PI clients. OK maybe I am making assumptions but today it is not uncommon to have all of the above.
Another parallel investigation you can do is leverage your cell phone and if it is an Apple iPhone put it into field test mode. See if it communicates to the same tower as the Nokia router by confirming both report the same PCI values for the tower signals. Android phones have applications for tower location so yet another option. If you have not yet used cellmapper.net to validate the location of the tower your router connects to i highly recommend doing so. It is simple enough to use and very informative. What cellular channels are you linking to? How strong and clean are the signals? Do the cellular signals bounce/change from one channel to another? Do any of the local devices record errors or drops? Profile the behavior in detail. Focus on any device that can be influential and stands out but keep an open mind on other actors in the path.
Use the web searches to get ideas but focus on the facts. The values and behaviors you can confirm. Don't overlook all the tools you can put to work. Keep notes and analyze the operation in a systematic periodic manner.
The objective: Determine with more certainty where the problem resides. Look at the physical layer before you go up the stack.
Sorry I did not intentionally ignore the reference to the MTU size that Amith Kamur discusses. He is obviously a very intelligent and talented engineer. His article is well written and offers a solution where the use of the VPN is desired. Encountering MTU issues can be possible, and maybe pretty common, as the VPN adds overhead to the solution with the size of the packet. You have to limit the data contained to have the wrapper small enough so every node along the path can handle the MTU. If you stated you use a VPN regularly I would have taken more focus on that but well. As you state, may be unrelated, and I would not rush down that rabbit holeright away. Analysis of packet captures and looking at the physical layer and moving up the stack from the bottom up would be more productive.
You can add me to this list as well. I was having drops nearly every 2-3 hours 2 days ago.
That’s when I discovered this forum and learned that my problem wasn’t unique.
So far what I've done is taken the outside cover of the trashcan off (Similar to the YT videos of people adding an external antenna but not reassembling it), and placed a fan under it (Fan is inappropriately sized) and that had given me a 1D,12HR and 58MIN uptime. After that time, all devices (Two wired and one wireless) said there was no internet connection from the trashcan (but were still technically connected to the trashcan itself). Looking at the gateway panel, it had showed that I had 3 bars connected to my cell tower at the time of the disconnection with a -96 dBm value. I measured the temperature at the top grill at the time of disconnection and I found that it was 88F. The trashcan is placed near a window with a light window curtain, at the time of disconnection it was sunny.
Temporary setup attempting to cool the trashcan down I haven't had issues in terms of staying connected to at least one cell tower at all times. However, I do occasionally have issues with the trashcan staying connected to two towers at once, but I have learned that isn't the issue that's causing the drops (AFAIK) and have attributed that to living in the woods.
On a sidenote: I had also removed the battery from the device in an attempt to see if that was causing some type of internal voltage issue as I saw someone somewhere mention that everytime the battery hit 100%, they’d have a dropped connection.Do yourself a favor and use www.cellmapper.net to learn where the T-Mobile towers are. Record the information about the ones close to or around you with attention to the PCI (physical cell ID). If you go into the router with the web UI at 192.168.12.1 you will see the primary and secondary channels/signals on the overview page. That will show you the connections and RSRP/RSRQ/SNR values to know the signal strength, signal quality, and signal to noise ratio. Then go to the status page and record the band, and PCI information from the primary and secondary signal reporting. If you proceed to the "statistics" page you can select cellular and record the statistics there. See if there are packet errors or packet drops. If you have problems using cellmapper.net open a call with T-Mobile support and ask them point blank where is the tower my router is serviced by. They have the PCI information and can tell you the coordinates of the tower. You can use Google Earth and a drive about to confirm what you know and get a good ideal how to improve matters. Use your phone to locate the tower. If you use an iPhone put it into field test mode and read the PCI value it knows. Chances are both may use the same tower. It is not a given but a good datapoint.
Con PCI information for the primary and secondary channels and the bands used you can use the information from cellmapper.net to determine where the tower is that sends to you. With this and some testing you may be able to better locate your router. Watch out for metal screens or buildings in the path to the tower. If a window has a screen that is metal either put the router above the screen or remove the screen from the window to prevent shielding of the signal. Don't just rely upon the bars on the top of the router. They are actually rather generic as vendors don't have a MUST directive for how to deal with those but a recommended use. One feature of the LED display on the top of the router is the alarms. If the router does have temperature issues it will or should report an over temp alarm. The only way I have seen to get the alarm is to use the LED display on top of the router. Forget the mobile application it is about as useful as well blah… It is very unreliable and not much value.
If you only have say the 5G signal dropping from time to time it could well be T-Mobile engineers are working on the equipment on the tower in your area and that is the cause not the router itself. I highly suggest to not just accept mediocre service but talk with T-Mobile support engineers, try the router in different locations, get the information about the tower location and be patient. Record your findings from trying new locations and then dial it in. If you do the same thing, expect the same results.
If I can help you understand what you see and help you dial it in I am happy to do so.
iTinkeralot wrote:
Do yourself a favor and use www.cellmapper.net to learn where the T-Mobile towers are. Record the information about the ones close to or around you with attention to the PCI (physical cell ID). If you go into the router with the web UI at 192.168.12.1 you will see the primary and secondary channels/signals on the overview page. That will show you the connections and RSRP/RSRQ/SNR values to know the signal strength, signal quality, and signal to noise ratio. Then go to the status page and record the band, and PCI information from the primary and secondary signal reporting. If you proceed to the "statistics" page you can select cellular and record the statistics there. See if there are packet errors or packet drops. If you have problems using cellmapper.net open a call with T-Mobile support and ask them point blank where is the tower my router is serviced by. They have the PCI information and can tell you the coordinates of the tower. You can use Google Earth and a drive about to confirm what you know and get a good ideal how to improve matters. Use your phone to locate the tower. If you use an iPhone put it into field test mode and read the PCI value it knows. Chances are both may use the same tower. It is not a given but a good datapoint.
Con PCI information for the primary and secondary channels and the bands used you can use the information from cellmapper.net to determine where the tower is that sends to you. With this and some testing you may be able to better locate your router. Watch out for metal screens or buildings in the path to the tower. If a window has a screen that is metal either put the router above the screen or remove the screen from the window to prevent shielding of the signal. Don't just rely upon the bars on the top of the router. They are actually rather generic as vendors don't have a MUST directive for how to deal with those but a recommended use. One feature of the LED display on the top of the router is the alarms. If the router does have temperature issues it will or should report an over temp alarm. The only way I have seen to get the alarm is to use the LED display on top of the router. Forget the mobile application it is about as useful as well blah… It is very unreliable and not much value.
If you only have say the 5G signal dropping from time to time it could well be T-Mobile engineers are working on the equipment on the tower in your area and that is the cause not the router itself. I highly suggest to not just accept mediocre service but talk with T-Mobile support engineers, try the router in different locations, get the information about the tower location and be patient. Record your findings from trying new locations and then dial it in. If you do the same thing, expect the same results.
If I can help you understand what you see and help you dial it in I am happy to do so.
Oh I have moved my trashcan around the entire property (using an extension cord) and then later on found out that my primary connection is to a tower farther from me, but nearly a direct line of sight (not quite though). The window I currently have it in is the best connection spot I could find after tirelessly moving the trashcan around inside and out.
The band to the primary connection is ONLY B66 (The tower offers no others AFAIK), whereas the secondary connection (Behind a ton of pine trees) is n71 (5G).
For science I don’t mind doxxing myself a bit here.As I’m writing this reply, here’s my current stats from the gateway:
And here is my location in reference to the cell towers:
Sometimes, however, I see this on my phone but I have driven to this point and I believe it’s not appropriately placed or was just estimated as a location:
My next fun project was to try and buy an external antenna and play around with trying my best to increase my signal to the n71 connection. That will have to wait a bit, though.
As long as I'm connected to both, I can reach download speeds between 60-110. When I'm connected to the B66 tower only, it averages a download of 30-40 down.
I don't have any errors on any of the tabs under statistics. I have previously, but not as of my latest reset.
With the trees an external MIMO panel antenna might help out quite a bit. If you can get the n71 stronger sure that would make it more satisfying. Your router records B66 and n71 so the cell info in the second image with site 3154402 reports NB B71 but does not provide the PCI for 100% verification. I am not convinced that is quite the same. The n71 5G NR is an extension of the 600 MHz bands to enhance the 4G LTE by swapping out part of the banding to leverage the 5G. It depends upon the operation. If they are swapping 10 MHz of 4G for 30 MHz of 5G on n71 then that is where you would get a significant boost. To be 100% you really have to know the PCI of each band and identify the tower that has that PCI, physical cell ID. With the web version on my client at home using cellmapper.net I was able to get the low down on both the 4G and the 5G signals. The phone may not report or connect to the same towers as the router. It can be somewhat helpful but the PCI is important to have. Once you are 100% on the tower delivery to the router then you can really dial it in. An external antenna might help considerably but would have to be located properly to really make it rock and roll.
There is also a 4G LTE 71 channel and it is in the 600 MHz range but it comes down to the way the band is sliced up and what parts are used for the upload and download transmissions. It is a rather complicated subject. There are many aspects of the way the carriers handle the signals that I am not knowledgable of. I am just trying to learn more about the technology so I can optimize the solution I have here. I just still enjoy trying to help other users get the solution working. Every single solution is just a bit different. Some very different one from another. There is a great deal to learn about cellular transmissions. I am sure much more than I will ever be able to understand but learning is fun.
iTinkeralot wrote:
With the trees an external MIMO panel antenna might help out quite a bit. If you can get the n71 stronger sure that would make it more satisfying. Your router records B66 and n71 so the cell info in the second image with site 3154402 reports NB B71 but does not provide the PCI for 100% verification. I am not convinced that is quite the same. The n71 5G NR is an extension of the 600 MHz bands to enhance the 4G LTE by swapping out part of the banding to leverage the 5G. It depends upon the operation. If they are swapping 10 MHz of 4G for 30 MHz of 5G on n71 then that is where you would get a significant boost. To be 100% you really have to know the PCI of each band and identify the tower that has that PCI, physical cell ID. With the web version on my client at home using cellmapper.net I was able to get the low down on both the 4G and the 5G signals. The phone may not report or connect to the same towers as the router. It can be somewhat helpful but the PCI is important to have. Once you are 100% on the tower delivery to the router then you can really dial it in. An external antenna might help considerably but would have to be located properly to really make it rock and roll.
So that last Cellmapper picture from my phone that occasionally shows the red dot I was able to pull up on the Cellmapper website. When you click on the red dot, one of the PCI cells matches the PCI for my secondary connection on my trashcan (n71). Link Here
But with the first picture, the green dot closest to me does not show the same PCI for any of the cells for my secondary connection. Link Here
So I have one of two guesses. Either the first link is on the tower to the second link and just inappropriately placed. Or there's a tower I'm missing when I drive by, perhaps on top of a building or something.
Seeing as though I live in the middle of nowhere in a rural farming area, I'm thankful to get what I currently can. The only wired option for me is Windstream which at most I can get is 10 down and 1 up.
I noticed on the Cellmapper app there’s an option to take pictures for the cell towers, I might try doing that because I have seen under the CellMapper reddit that a lot of people like to try and identify who and what is on each tower.
Anyways, I'm going to keep an eye out for the next time internet drops and I'll update as I get more information. Thanks for your help Tinker, hopefully the techs are reading this and are able to get some kind of idea on what might be going on.
OK so that is helpful!
I can see the 5G NR n71 is delivered from the tower on the other side of town. That is where your router links to for the secondary channel.
See the screen shots attached. Both the 5G NR and 4G LTE towers are there. Close to one another but not from the same tower.
iTinkeralot wrote:
OK so that is helpful!
I can see the 5G NR n71 is delivered from the tower on the other side of town. That is where your router links to for the secondary channel.
See the screen shots attached. Both the 5G NR and 4G LTE towers are there. Close to one another but not from the same tower.
Correct. And my secondary connection keep swapping between two cells on the 5GNR tower, and those cells are 261 and 184. I'm hoping that an external antenna can penetrate through the thickness of the trees. The way I am seeing it is, if my trashcan can get a n71 signal on its own, then an antenna should be able to help.
Funnily enough, as I was writing this message, the internet dropped.
Uptime from the last drop: 5h, 7m, 30s
Temperature at the top of the grill: 87F
Noticeable difference: Secondary connection wasn’t connected, however primary was. I don’t understand why there’s this inability to keep the internet going even though the primary tower connection still exists. Makes me wonder if there’s a handoff issue when the secondary tower drops off while the primary tower never disconnects?
A reboot from the gateway panel fixes it, like usual. Also, every time I reboot it has no issues connecting to the secondary tower. Another thing I find odd.
Not long before this, my wife started a large download for a 15GB game update for Black Desert Online. Just wanted to mention it incase it oddly has something to do with a massive influx of packets or if a massive load of data being transferred is somehow affecting it.
So here’s round 2 of images:
